Curse

ManadartheHealer · Dec 28, 2005, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega_2005

The answer could be 42 or 48...

What if there was never a real question to begin with?

Iceman2 · Dec 28, 2005, 09:55 PM // 21:55

right now i belive that god justs wants us to be good and decent people. It doesnt matter what religion you are, as long as you always try to be helpful to the fellow man.

Kismet · Dec 28, 2005, 10:07 PM // 22:07

I believe in a whole different mix of things. I believe in the Big Bang theory and evolution. I also that believe that everything has a lifeforce in it. I belive in the Rule of Three (more associated with Pagans) and Karma. I think that Jesus existed, yes, but not that he was our savior. He was a brilliant teacher and we should follow what he said as far as how to treat your fellow humans. I also believe in reincarnation, until you decide you don't want anymore incarnations. I guess I just label myself Agnostic for the most part, it's usually easier than explaining it all.

sino-soviet · Dec 29, 2005, 08:34 AM // 08:34

I see most arguments against religion based on science and darwinism, but I strongly believe philosophy and plain old logic are legitimate as well.

The world as I see it, and people should logically see it, is that credibility and acceptance of something comes with the thing being proven, not disproven. There are an infinite number of things in this universe which have not been proven, and religion is up there with all the rest of them. If humans merely follow beliefs and accept them based solely on the argument that it CANNOT be DISPROVEN, such a belief is clearly stilted and undermines everything which we know and accept to be true. Simply, it is not the duty of man to try to disprove anything; our stability rests on the notion that it is proven before accepted. Religion simply does not adhere to the regulations which is placed on nearly everything else.

A common situation which we can all proably relate to:

religious person: Lets argue about religion.
atheist: Ok. Prove that god exists. There is no proof god exists.
religious person: Well, you can't prove that god doesn't exist!

You cannot disprove something which has not been proven yet and lacks substance. I think of this great debate as a court case. On one side, you have to people who try to prove something, the prosecution/religious people. On the other, you have the defense/atheists. Like in court, the burden of proof is on the prosecution - they make the claim and they are responsible for proving this claim. As far as time has told, they have not done their duty. Thus, I am an atheist, plain and simple.

badd · Dec 29, 2005, 08:45 AM // 08:45

god gives people hope.
i am a believer

in myself.

Kai Nui · Dec 29, 2005, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Well, a man's gotta believe in something right? Well in that case I believe I'll have another beer.

On a more serious note, I don't believe there is a god. I don't see why anyone would try to make something up that makes things more complicated. The most easiest solution is usually the right one. I mean you look outside on the sidewalk and see an orange splot. Now do you think aliens from mars came and made thier mark as a place to travel, or did someone spill a can of paint? Now with god, I personally have no proof. People claim to have proof, but none of it is physical evidence. Sure, you could have been nearly hit by a train, but why is it because god saved you? People get hit by trains and die, just because you were lucky doesn't mean that god saved you. If you flip a coin and get heads 3 times in a row, god isn't there helping you out. I find it quite ridiculous to believe in something in which I've been given no proof, and if he decides to send me to hell because I chose not to believe in something I have no proof in... how can he really be so great? I mean, it's like me telling you that you have to believe pigs fly, just not when you're looking, and if you don't believe you'll end up in a room filled with flies and mice which you have to catch with chopsticks and drink vinegar after each bite.

People think that the world is so great, and that there had to be some outer force in order to create this, but if there is such a greater outer being, then what created him? Himself? Out of thin air? That's like saying the strongest man alive just appeared out of no where one day. That man had to body build to where he was, just like the earth. We started out as single celled organisms, and I don't doubt it to this day, that we slowly evolved into what we are today. Sparked by a lighting bolt perhaps, or heat of lava, life was formed in a small form. After MILLIONS of years we eventually came to be. Rich and poor people were around, and poor people really had nothing to live for, rich people created the concept of an afterlife so that the people would have something to live for instead of rioting of why thier life sucked. Since you're dead you can't really say there isn't a god. Perhaps that's not how it happened, but I think it's a good theory.

Besides that, I think we're all complex machines. All acting upon many different variables, without making actual choices. We do make the choices according to what we know, but you're going to do what you do in the way that you do it. If you think choice does actually exist, then you are probably already dead. You didn't choose to walk in front of a truck, you stood still, now is that a choice? Yes, but not much of a choice at all. Did you eat that food because it tasted good? Are you going to just eat rice the rest of your life because you choose to? Are you going to sleep in and lose your job? Are you going to eat crap from a toilet? Are you going to keep going to church believing in something just because your parents told you to believe in it, just because they were told when they were children it existed? Are you going to believe that Santa Claus exists? Are you not going to brush your teeth tonight because you think you don't need to every day or you are just occupied with other things that you forget?

You can come up with just about any scenario and it's all easily explained to no choice, just the most logical answer according to the person who makes it.

That's what I believe in, I believe in fact. I refuse to allow myself to live by good morals and not take action, and let it be alright because I'm going to heaven and paradise etc... Because honestly, it's impossible.

LeftAlone- · Dec 29, 2005, 12:14 PM // 12:14

I am an Orthodox.. but thats becaus I just am.. I didn't choose it.

MY OPINION on Bible = Book full of propaganda, filled with stuff that causes more problems than good things, in order to have control over the population in one way or another.

MY OPINION on Jesus = A man who existed, but that was nothing close to what is said about him in the Bible. I have more to say regarding him, but maybe Its better to leave that out for now..

MY OPINION on God = An energy that has a will of its own. It created everything that is, and its exists in everything.. Every tiny bit of EVERYTHING around you is a form of 'its' energy. Ofcourse, 'God' alone hasn't created this all. He creates major entities like say for example Jesus. Jesus is not only just a human who walked upon Earth, he is the very creator of our local universe of Nebadon. He has many names, but the one he was originally know by, is Lord Hatonn Sananda. Enough on that.

MY OPINION on 'afterlife' = We are all souls, separate bits of god, yet still connected to everytihng and with everything. We start our evolution with birth from the very simple creatures. Eventually Karma and other stuff builds up, and our souls evolve and evolve and evolve.. Eventually we are where we are now.. Through our Karmic evolution we go in and out through many different levels of existence. At some point we will be far enough to deside wether we want to incarnate again, or continue our learning process in another form.
People can't even begin to imagine all the aspects of this. I myself know nothing. Its just so big for our tiny heads.. but we are getting there.. slowly, but steadily.

I also have sources from which I've got such info, that we are very, VERY close to some radical changes. For example the date of Dec 21st on 2012. Things will happen before that, too, though. Big things. And maybe even as soon as during this next year, 2006. 2012 will just be the date by which we are meant to be finally prepared. The date set to us by our very own Mother Earth, Gaia.
We are requiered to be ready by then. The planed will undergo such changes that VERY few, if any human living in their physical body will survive. Thus by then we are expected to 'accend' into the '5th dimension'. What that is? Well.. I have no idea. It remains to be seen.
Also it is VERY, I repeat, V-E-R-Y important to not take this info as 100% truth. Only as a possible scenario.
---------------------

I think theres a whole bunch of bull**** going on with the goverments and its abusive grip on religion that is the reason for most problems in our todays society. I have lots to say on this theme, but I'll leave it short now.
As said before.. remains to see. Not that much left to go till the end of 2012. Most of us will still be looking good and sexy even then.

ManadartheHealer · Dec 29, 2005, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by sino-soviet

A common situation which we can all proably relate to:

religious person: Lets argue about religion.
atheist: Ok. Prove that god exists. There is no proof god exists.
religious person: Well, you can't prove that god doesn't exist!

While I myself am atheist, I must point out for the theist point of view that not all people are that...stupid. Many people have made somewhat decent points for the existence of God, such as Alvin Plantinga and his Ontological Argument. While it didn't personally change my view, and it may have some weak points, it is by far so much stronger and more logical than the instance of a "common argument" you outlined.

Unfortunately, the average religious zealot is unfamiliar with anything close to logical. And they are not acquainted with the concept of "burden of proof", either.

Vhayr · Dec 29, 2005, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Basically, I can understand the belief of a "God", whatever that may be, and I have a feeling that there is something "out there". However, until somebody can show me substantial evidence confirming or disproving the existence of a God, then I refuse to believe either way. I like what I've got going on here.

Lou · Dec 30, 2005, 02:04 AM // 02:04

When I was growing up I was muslim until 7 christian until 14 and nothing for the longest time now. I didn't really convert as much as my family did and said to me you have to be christian now blah blah blah. I believe in god but I hate all forms of organized religion. I think it serves as brainwashing and a form of oppression among people.

Old Dood · Dec 30, 2005, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azeroths Hammer

I think it serves as brainwashing and a form of oppression among people.

Yes all forms of religion do that....

George Carlin made a great point once...most Wars are started over Religion...

I tend to agree...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Booger

1. if evolution takes millions of years, how would it happen? animals/species dont live up to be a million years old, also if theres another possiblity on the million years theory, how come old animals like the kiwi bird, or just any animals like the cochroach that existed before mankind hasnt changed?

One thing I was "taught" about how come the Dinosaurs all of a sudden disappeared? Well...that was the Battle between Satan and God. Satan's fall from Grace....and a New Earth was shaped.

It makes sense in a way...but I am still not convinced that is what happened.

Nice thought tho....

Makes you think....And thinking is what makes life worth while....

PieXags · Dec 30, 2005, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Edit: Weeded out some controversey, keep the topic free of any debates and controversial discussion please. This thread is for people to freely share their opinions without fear of someone coming along and trying to disprove them with shaky statements.

darkdragon99 · Dec 30, 2005, 03:07 AM // 03:07

i believe pie is gonna end up closing this thread

Old Dood · Dec 30, 2005, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdragon99

i believe pie is gonna end up closing this thread

Well I sure hope not....

I asked back on the first page to Weed out the B.S. and nurture this thread over nuking it....

Some threads deserve more attention then others....Before some Moderator jumps in and says that they do this stuff all day....I understand that...and still, nurture thought provoking ones....and....nuke the B.S ones.

Ohhh...For the sake of Argument...this thread is a thought provoking one....

Sai of Winter · Dec 30, 2005, 03:34 AM // 03:34

I'm secular (meaning having no religion) and I've been peacefully happy for a long time. I'm never always angry.

I've been living a very good life now.

TheOneAndOnlyX · Dec 30, 2005, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Have any of you ever thought that when you die nothing happens just black and darkness and yo never know because your mind isnt there

basically you just rot

Believej00 · Dec 30, 2005, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devastatius

Why does everything have to be created? We all know that's impossible, because who created the creator? That will lead to an endless list of possible answers.

-Devas

Amen. That's my opinion. Obviously something had to create the universe, and something had to create something that created the universe, and something had to create something that had to create something that created the universe, and....

It's simply a question that will never be answerable.

OK, my beliefs:

No distinct religion. Religion is used for control, and for justification of war. I believe in a greater being that created all, I call it God. It is everything. It cannot lift the boulder, it is the boulder.

Existence in it's entirety is to complex to be created by mere chance. Things like emotion, feeling, and life are just too complex to not be created on purpose. Everythign is just too complex.

So basically my beliefs are Creationism/Intelligent Design. I don't believe aliens created us, I believe God did. I do believe in aliens. I do believe in ghosts and spirits. I believe I have a soul. I believe in good and evil. I believe in the balance between good and evil, the ying and the yang. I believe in parrallel universes. I believe in afterlife.

I don't believe in that Big Bang Bullshit. There's no solid evidence. The keyword is theory. A theory is an educated guess, or an uneducated guess.

Simply, everythign that surrounds me is just to complicated for me to care about investigating it. I have been given life, so I'm gonna use it.

And even though I don't feel connected to any religion at the moment, those Jews are sounding mighty convincing.

And I don't believe in this Scientology or Mormon crap. THe creators of these religions smoked something too much.

Mister Overhill · Dec 30, 2005, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Jesus said, "All whom the Father has given me will come to me".

I hadn't darkened the door of a church in years, when I started to go for no other reason than to stay on the good side of a girl. That was in 1967. I was just there running my game, when God called me to follow him. Have no recollection of what the minister was talking about. He was a mild mannered man -- didn't wave his arms, raise his voice, or get theatrical.

All I know is that God gave me a direct order, which I understood, being in the army at the time. Had no idea what I believed about Christianity, because it was all greek to me, but I did obey the command.

That was a long time ago, and I've become a Christian writer and lay theologian along the way. Life has had its ups and downs, but I've never regretted the choice I made. When I look back at the life I had before, it appears as a living death, although at the time it seemed pretty good to me.

I don't twist people's arms over Christianity, not even my own kids and grandkids. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. One grandson is a pagan, but I'm not worried about it -- so was I.

As I said before, I'm proud of you guys for not turning this into a war. That doesn't happen very often.

PieXags · Dec 30, 2005, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Hmm...don't remember what I said earlier about my beliefs...

I believe that whatever anyone wants to believe is right or wrong in whatever sense you can think of it as, human beings and the universe in itself is too complicated and full of unknown bullshit (including it's origin) that nobody can prove or disprove a damn thing, we're all going to believe whatever we want to believe because we as humans have a habit of trying to figure things out despite whether or not we'll ever actually reach an answer. Beliefs and morals in themselves are controversial and that being said it should also represent the fact that because they're controversial they can't be proved to be either right or wrong, if they could the controversy would end and we'd have a definate answer. Because of no possible answer, we'll continue to run around and do whatever the hell we want until we die at which point in time we'll either figure out some more things, start a new life, turn into nothingness, or begin an entire new existance in another realm---I don't believe we'll ever know, because I think we're all too wrapped up in our lives to truly understand any answers we might find in death. Humans to me are great big confused, self centered little entities who think too much to be able to find fact in anything. We are all perfect and imperfect in our own ways, our beliefs are our own and nobody anywhere, ever, will be able to disprove or prove ourselves to be right or wrong in any sense.

Woot.

Ultimate Warrior · Dec 30, 2005, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Overhill

As I said before, I'm proud of you guys for not turning this into a war. That doesn't happen very often.

Yeh, same here. Keep the posts good.